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hard on and jack off after you did it?
MICHAEL
I didn't jack off. It was a turn on, but
I probably had to piss also, so, you
know.
INTERVIEWER
Did you pee in your pants right after you
pooped in your pants?
MICHAEL
No, I did have to pee, but I thought let
me clean my clothes first because if you
piss and shit in your pants it's gonna be
more messy.
ALLEN
I thought scat was a music thing. I had
no idea what it was. I found out about
it when I was working in the bar. We
would give out pamphlets and flyers on
safe sex. And it had a list of do's and
don'ts and one of the don'ts was scat.
And I thought, "What is this?" I couldn't
understand why scat was listed there. I
mean, that's what Ella Fitzgerald does?
JOE
Yeah, I'd piss on someone. It wouldn't
turn me on. But to shit, no. The one
thing that shocks me and I will never
understand it, can't imagine ever doing
it, wanting to do it, if you do it that's
fine, but I will never do it, is
felching. Or as someone else called it,
shrimping. It's where someone cums up
your ass and they suck it out with a
straw. And there's also a douching part
to it to, but either way that's just
gross.
INTERVIEWER
Why do you think people get into that
kind of stuff?
JOE
I don't know. I think maybe they're
bored.
ALLEN
There was one time when I was screwing
this guy and he had soft diarrhea. I was
getting high at the time and he had soft
diarrhea. And it came out. I had to
take a bath. That was probably the
worst.
JOE
Rimming, or as we call it, cleaning the
kitchen, I do enjoy.
It's something that when I first came out
I didn't necessarily want it done to me
and definitely was not doing it to you.
But in the past year it's become a little
joy in my life. Me, my roommate and some
friends all discovered it at the same
time and we all love to do it. I don't
rim every guy I'm with. Generally I
explore that area some other way before I
go there with my face. Fortunately I've
never gone there and retreated. It has
happened where I'm fucking a guy and I
have to stop because of the smell, but I
get up and turn it into a sexual thing in
the shower. "Let me scrub you off, we'll
get rid of the smell that way."
STEVEN
I think of things that turn me on. I
think of rubbing my nose in a man's hairy
chest. I think of the way a man's
underarm looks. I think of how beautiful
a goatee looks on a Latin. I think how
beautiful a muscle on the leg of a man
looks. I think about these things 24
hours a day.
INTERVIEWER
What do you think God thinks about your
pissing activities?
MICHAEL
There's no prohibition about pissing in
your pants.
INTERVIEWER
So because God hasn't talked about
pissing or scat it's not a problem?
MICHAEL
Yeah.
INTERVIEWER
Is having gay thoughts as bad as actually
having the gay sex?
MICHAEL
Gay thoughts are a problem.
STEVEN
I had sex with a cop before. I went to a
party of two guys that I met during gay
pride.
After the parade all five of us went to
one of their apartments. At the time I
was a strict bottom and I loved to get
fucked. We walked into the apartment and
they lined up and they all fucked me, one
by one.
INTERVIEWER
And, did they use condoms?
(very long pause)
Wait before you answer that...
(to audience)
...does anyone need a break? You?
(to the actors)
What about you guys you want a break? Ok.
Lets take a 10 minute break and then
we'll come back and see if they use d
condoms.
LIGHT CUE: HOUSE LIGHTS UP
All exit except Steven and interviewer stay on stage at table
thinking, talking, mingling with audience.
Intermission-Optional
If people leave we can play music.
MUSIC CUE: BOYS DON'T CRY BY THE CURE
MUSIC CUE: MUSIC SLOWLY FADES OUT
INTERVIEWER (CONT'D)
Ok. Is everyone ready to continue? Ok.
SO... you got fucked by four strangers at
a gay pride parade...
(to audience)
...do you think he made them wear
condoms?
(to audience)
What do you think? Why do you think
that?
(after reponse)
So tell us...
LIGHT CUE: HOUSE LIGHTS OUT
INTERVIEWER (CONT'D)
...did they use condoms?
STEVEN
(smiling, long pause, finally)
No.
INTERVIEWER
And you had just met them?
STEVEN
But now I fool around with them everyday.
INTERVIEWER
Did you talk about it?
STEVEN
Actually one of them wore a condom. The
man who owned the apartment. Not the two
guys that I keep in touch with now.
INTERVIEWER
Did the cop wear a condom?
STEVEN
No. Cause I only sucked him off. I
don't think I've ever heard of a case
where someone has gotten AIDS from giving
a blowjob and I'm just not concerned with
it. Probably about ninety-seven percent
of the men that fuck me, fuck me with a
condom. Three percent don't.
INTERVIEWER
Are you're prepared to have your test
results come back positive?
STEVEN
I'm prepared, absolutely. I've had crabs,
I've had gonorrhea, I've had warts,
hemorrhoids. I've had it all? It doesn't
scare me. I live for the moment and if I
get it, I get it. Not to say that I'm
gonna go out and get it because I don't
give a shit...I hope somebody understands
what I'm trying to explain. If it comes
to a time where I do get it, I'll deal
with it. I'll take care of it and I'll
die. I get tested every six months.
Regular as the clock ticks.
INTERVIEWER
Do you think you will get it eventually?
STEVEN
No, I don't think I'll get it. Not to
say that I can't. Please I'm not
ignorant, I might be dumb.
INTERVIEWER
Do you let guys cum in you?
STEVEN
No, absolutely not. That's where I draw
the line?
INTERVIEWER
Do you ever let it happen?
STEVEN
I have let it happen, but no more.
INTERVIEWER
So, you go to gay pride parades?
STEVEN
Yes.
INTERVIEWER
Do you enjoy them?
STEVEN
Oh, yeah...I meet alot of hot cops there!
MUSIC CUE: WE ARE FAMILY BY SISTER SLEDGE-LOUD
MUSIC CUE: WE ARE FAMILY-BUMP OUT ON FIRST LYRIC
PATRICK
I've got no problem with someone doing
drag, but is that the way we celebrate?
I celebrate my gay pride as a man
dressing as a woman? For some people it
might be. Or is it simply to be
confrontational.
INTERVIEWER
What would be wrong if it was to be
confrontational?
PATRICK
Again it goes back to, is that the only
way that person defines himself as a gay
man?
INTERVIEWER
You seem very concerned with images that
are socially acceptable.
PATRICK
If you think of a gay teen picking up a
gay magazine and flipping through it
because they're finding out who they are,
and if you think about the images in
these magazines as a message about gay
life you get a very skewed message. Just
look at the ads for example: there is one
ad which has three very humpy guys
sitting on lounge chairs in bathing suits
and then this older balding, overweight
man on the end and so it pits the young
buff guys against the old out of shape
guys...so even within the gay community
we have to find someone to pick on...or
there are lots of ads for parties or
liquor or tobacco. And interestingly
there are also ads for people who need
recovery so that you have liquor ads and
recovery ads in the same publication.
There are also a lot of ads for life
insurance settlements and it paints this
picture that when gay people become ill
they become very desperate and they need
cash because there isn't anyone else
around to help them...so if you look at
these publications you think oh my God
what's it going to be like when I get
older? I'm going to be the old person
sitting on the end with everyone else
ignoring me. Or when I get sick, I'm
going to be desperate for cash. Or I'm
going be an alcoholic. I think the gay
community must police itself as to the
messages they want conveyed by the
collection of advertisements.
INTERVIEWER
That sounds slightly Fascist.
PATRICK
If the religious right says they want to
buy every ad in your magazine this month,
because they're going to put a very
homophobic message in there, do we just
say you're an advertiser we'll take your
dollars? My guess would be no. There was
one insurance ad of two empty chairs on
the beach.
Part of me wanted to think, "Okay, here
are two people that are off swimming and
enjoying themselves." But there was this
whole big empty beach and just two empty
chairs and all I kept thinking of was,
"These people are dead! That's why there
is no one in the chairs!"
INTERVIEWER
But a lot of people are dead.
PATRICK
Right, but if the point of selling your
life insurance policy is so that you can
enjoy life why didn't they show people
enjoying life and not have this sense
that you are being eaten away by AIDS
that's why you need this product.
INTERVIEWER
Are you HIV positive?
PATRICK
Yes.
INTERVIEWER
So do you think that your problem with
these ads comes from a very personal fear
that maybe one day this will be you, that
you'll be alone and desperate?
PATRICK
I feel secure that I'll have people
around me. No I don't.
INTERVIEWER
Is your lover positive?
PATRICK
No.
INTERVIEWER
Can you talk about having a long term
relationship with someone whose negative
and you being positive and what that's
like?
PATRICK
Actually he's terminally ill with cancer
which came as a big shock last spring. I
was always worried about my leaving him
behind when the reality is now I'm going
to be left.
INTERVIEWER
Do you know you're going to be left?
PATRICK
Yes.
INTERVIEWER
How soon?
PATRICK
Probably within two years.
JOE
My step-dad died of cancer last year
right after I moved to the city. It was
unexpected, and it was very hard to deal
with. He had been around since I was six
years old. My biological father was such
a dickhead, I don't even talk to him, I
haven't talked to him in years. I
consider my biological father just that.
As far as I am concerned he's dead.
BRIAN
Typical suburbia, tri-level, dogs, three
cars...we were having a going away dinner
for me, cause I was leaving to come up
here. We were sitting out on the back
deck, next to the pool, dad was cooking
on the grill, mom was sitting there and
we were drinking beer. All day long, I
had been walking around trying to muster
up the guts to say this. And I finally
just said, "You guys I need to talk to
you." And my dad was like, "I could tell
something was on your mind, what's up?"
I was like "I'm gay."
And he sat down.
I'll never forget this as long as I live,
he sat down, put his head in his hands
and stared at the ground for fifteen
minutes. Didn't say a word. And my mom,
who is this ultra-aggressive woman and
also ultra-ignorant about life,
automatically told me and still believes
that I need hormone shots, and it'll fix
it.
Last time we had this confrontation about
it, she asked me, "Have you investigated
what we talked about?" I said, "What?"
And she said "Have you been to see a
doctor?" I was like "A therapist." She
said, "No, the doctor that we talked
about you having hormone shots." And I
hung up on her. I'm just not listening
to that anymore. So, about two hours
later the family started showing up, so
we didn't really get a chance to talk
about it very much. Then I was leaving
and I walked out to the front porch and
my dad, who is like this big macho, works
at General Motors and builds cars, came
up to me and gives me this big hug and
starts crying and says, "You're my son,
you're always my son and I'll always love
you." Which ripped my heart out of my
chest. I bawled and bawled and bawled
the whole way home. I saw my father
emotional one time, and that was when his
father died and I was twelve. I've seen
him angry, but I've never seen him
emotional in a sad way. I hadn't
prepared for that at all.
INTERVIEWER
But your mother, did she hug and kiss you
good-bye?
BRIAN
No. I mean she did physically, but she
wasn't there. She's still not there.
INTERVIEWER
Is your father there for you now?
BRIAN
He's there, but he's not there. I can't
call him up and talk about my
relationships. I can't bring somebody
home. My mother called me two weeks ago
on a Saturday night, "What are you
doing?" I said, "I'm just getting ready
to go to the movies." She said "Oh
really? What are you going to see?" And
I told her. She was like, "Who are you
going with?" I said I have a date. She
was like, "Really?" I was like, "Yeah.
He's a vice president of Citi-Bank and
he's gorgeous and he's black." And she
was like, "That's enough." The fact that
he's a he and that he's black! They don't
know anything about me personally. My
parents and I have a very surface
relationship. They don't know anything
about my real life. What I do socially,
who I sleep with, when I sleep with, how
frequently I sleep with. My father told
me that he is still gonna always in the
back of his mind hope that I walk up to
him with a five foot two blond and say,
"She's pregnant and she's my wife". So
that's real supportive.
INTERVIEWER
How did your step-dad deal with your
homosexuality?
JOE
When you come from a small town everybody
talks and I didn't want him to hear about
it that way so I told my mom to tell him.
He called me and I realized when he
called me that he knew and I started
crying. He was just like, "What's wrong?
I think you're making a mountain out of a
mole hill. You're our son and we love
you anyway. We play with the cards we're
dealt."
ALLEN
I passed out on 8th Avenue and 14th
Street and woke up at Beth Israel
Hospital. I had been up for two or three
days on coke. I had been going to school
during this time. I would go to school,
come back during class, get high with
like ten people in one apartment, go to
school, go to work, I was exhausted. I
hadn't gotten enough sleep so I passed
out and woke up in the hospital. They
wanted to put me in rehab, not rehab but
get help, they said,
BRIAN
(as doctor)
"What if somebody was to tell you that
you had AIDS?"
ALLEN
"Well you know the results, obviously."
BRIAN
(as doctor)
"Yes."
ALLEN
I was like whooo...I was taken back. And
after an hour or two I left the hospital,
I was discharged. I couldn't eat for the
whole day, I just had this really weird
feeling. I was upset, I cried for a
little bit. The feeling was just
overwhelming. I said to myself
immediately, "I cannot give up on life, I
cannot." I said "Okay, I'm not dead.
I'm not ill. Why freak out about it?
I'm not gonna cause myself stress over
it."
INTERVIEWER
Do you get depressed about it?
ALLEN
No I don't. A lot of my friends do.
Because they don't wanna see me go and
they think I'm very complacent about it.
Which I probably am. They say,
JOE
"How can we respect you if you don't have
any respect for yourself?"
ALLEN
I say, "I have plenty of respect for
myself."
INTERVIEWER
How do they want you to live?
ALLEN
Take care of myself.
MICHAEL
Take medications.
PATRICK
Eat the right foods.
ALLEN
But I'm lazy. I'm allowed to be lazy.
I'm twenty-one.
INTERVIEWER
Are you seeing any kind of counselor, or
a doctor?
ALLEN
I see a doctor for my health, I see a
therapist and I see a psychiatrist.
INTERVIEWER
Do your parents know?
ALLEN
My mom does. She got very upset. I
remember when I told her I was bi she
said,
MICHAEL
"You're gonna end up on a dead end
street."
ALLEN
So I didn't tell her for a while. I
didn't want her to be right, but I knew
she was. And when I told her I said,
"You can say, 'I told you so.' If you
want to." She knew I would get myself
into a situation further on in life where
I would contract HIV. And I did.
MICHAEL
(as Mother)
"That attitude of thinking I can do
everything."
ALLEN
I thought it would get me everywhere, but
it got me nowhere.
BRIAN
(as Doctor)
So you didn't think you would contract
HIV?
ALLEN
No. I just didn't think about it. I
always thought about how hot the guy was
who I was getting it on with. I mean if
you're like with this totally hot guy,
and like the vibe is right you just wanna
get it on.
STEVEN
ASAP!
ALLEN
Now I have to wait. I can't have random
sex as much as I used to, because I have
to find somebody that I know won't flip
out with me telling them I have HIV. So
it takes a little longer. But as far as
hustling, it's always protected, that's
the only way. But I don't tell the
clients.
FRANK
What if they ask you?
ALLEN
If they ask me, I lie. And that's bad,
but I'm protected, I have protected sex.
INTERVIEWER
How often do they ask you?
ALLEN
They don't. That's the scary thing.
People don't ask in New York. They don't
ask if you're clean.
INTERVIEWER
But when they do ask...
ALLEN
Only once or twice have I been asked.
FRANK
And you lied?
ALLEN
And I lied.
PATRICK
And how did you feel after you lied?
ALLEN
Well I had protected sex, and I felt like
I told a white lie. I don't feel like I
really told something breaking the bank.
I don't think it was devastating.
INTERVIEWER
What do you think that they would say if
they knew that you had lied to them?
ALLEN
I'm sure that they would immediately
think, "whore with AIDS."
PATRICK
Have you ever lied to a sexual partner
where money was not involved?
ALLEN
After I was aware of it, never.
FRANK
Why would you lie to a client, then?
ALLEN
It's greed...it's in all of us. Greed
comes out in all of us. I know about the
money. And I know I can get a hundred
and eighty bucks just for letting some
guy suck me off for a half hour. As long
as I keep some sort of regiment about
using safe sex, then I kill two birds
with one stone, I feel. I've
accomplished how to make money and I've
accomplished safe sex.
INTERVIEWER
So you feel like the hundred and eighty
dollars is worth the lie?
ALLEN
It's really not, I know that it's not.
If you wanna take it down to a
technicality, it's not worth the lie.
But, at times, I don't think that. At
times that responsibility doesn't click
into my head. And I just say, "Fuck it."
PATRICK
What in your psyche allows you to put a
one hundred and eighty dollar price tag
on someone else's life?
ALLEN
When you put it in that light.
PATRICK
I'm not judging you, I'm asking.
ALLEN
I get defensive in these situations.
PATRICK
That's okay. Be defensive.
ALLEN
(boiling)
No, I won't. It throws a lot of guilt,
because I am completely aware of
everything that I do, I am aware of how I
do something, but a lot of times I'm not
aware of why.
PATRICK
Do you not feel any responsibility to
take care of them, if they're not mature
enough to take care of themselves?
ALLEN
No.
JOE
Don't you wish that somebody would have
taken care of you?
ALLEN
If you wanna use it in that terms, no.
Because to do other people's
responsibility, is not my problem, you
know?
INTERVIEWER
Well it is your problem, because...
PATRICK
...someone was irresponsible with you
and...
MICHAEL
...had unsafe sex with you...
BRIAN
and now you're positive.
INTERVIEWER
Don't you feel like you need to break
that chain?
ALLEN
(exploding)
I don't know if they were irresponsible
with me. I'm not putting the blame on
anybody for that. I don't blame somebody
for my problems.
My problems are my problems. Whatever
happens, that's good or bad, involves
you. Whatever involves you, you have to
take some responsibility for it. So it
involves me that I got HIV. But it's not
my responsibility to blame somebody for
it. Why blame somebody? I was just as
responsible for not saying use a condom.
I'll take responsibility for the things
that I do and act responsibly with the
things that I do, the best that I can.
Why should I do it for anybody. People
need to do it for themselves. When I had
contracted it more of the population
didn't know that they had it, and it may
have been that. So you know, if they
knew and they gave it to me, then God
will take care of them. They will have
their time, it will come back to them
three fold. But if they didn't, then I
empathize with them and understand what
they're going through.
JOE
My mom worries about AIDS...so whenever I
get tested I slip it into the
conversation somehow, "and in case you're
wondering..."
Brian steps up as the doctor.
BRIAN
How often do you get tested?
JOE
About every six months.
BRIAN
Every time you get tested do you expect
the results to come back positive?
JOE
The first time I got tested I didn't
think it was going to be positive because
it was the first time. I don't think
because of one instance where I had
unsafe sex I will die, but who knows?
Who knows if oral sex is totally safe?
And the more people you are with the
greater your risk, and I know that I'm
with a lot of people.
BRIAN
Do you feel invincible?
JOE
Sometimes fearless...
LIGHT CUE: SPOT ON JOE
JOE (CONT'D)
...sometimes stupid.
MUSIC CUE-SLIM SHADY-EMINEM-LOUD
LIGHT CUE: PARTY WASH-COLORS-LIGHT ON JOE
MUSIC CUE: EMINEM-UNDERSCORE ON FIRST VERSE
JOE (CONT'D)
Not too long ago I met this guy walking
home and picked him up. We went into
this house where we don't know the
people, but it looked like there was a
party going on. The second floor was all
bedrooms but I said I can't go into some
stranger's bedroom so we go out on this
porch. We started talking and kissing
and groping each other. All of a sudden
the screen door opens...
LIGHT CUE-A LIGHT TO REPRESENT PORCH LIGHT-BUMP ON
JOE (CONT'D)
...and there are four guys on the
balcony. The guy zips his pants up and
I'm just sitting there with a hard on.
None of the guys at this party were gay
and he was like,
FRANK
"Oh wow, that's pretty weird. Two gay
guys in my house kissing with Eminem
playing in the background.
MICHAEL
(as straight guy)
"Dude, it's not cool to come into
someone's house and start fucking on
their stuff."
JOE
I was like, "We're not fucking and we're
not going to fuck." The whole time my
pants are still down and I said, "Would
you be saying the same thing if it was a
guy and a girl?"
PATRICK
(as straight guy)
"Well we don't know you."
STEVEN
(as straight guy)
"You just need to leave!"
JOE
The minute he says that Frank jumps up
and leaves. Well I have to stand up and
pull up my pants and I was being all cool
about it and I said, "...well it was nice
to meet you".
He leaves as guys laugh, grumble, music up.
BRIAN
I just love sex. I've had sex twice
today. At the gym...
We are now in a gym...maybe...excersizing...or maybe we'll
stay at the party.
BRIAN (CONT'D)
...during lunch. I had oral sex both
times.
FRANK
You blew someone, or they blew you?
BRIAN
Both, both times.
MICHAEL
Where did you do it?
BRIAN
In the steam room.
STEVEN
So you were in a towel in the steam room,
so you were not using condoms for that,
correct?
BRIAN
I did use a condom.
ALLEN
How did you use a condom in a steam room?
BRIAN
Because I carry them with me at all
times.
INTERVIEWER
Even in your towel?
BRIAN
I carry them with me at all times.
FRANK
So wait, are you telling me that you went
into the steam room holding a condom in
your hand?
BRIAN
No, we were in the shower...
Act this out...Steven plays the guy in the shower.
BRIAN (CONT'D)
...and glances across the shower was
about all it took. And then I went to
the locker, grabbed a condom, grabbed two
condoms actually, and then went into the
steam room.
PATRICK
And you sucked him with a condom?
BRIAN
Yeah.
JOE
You must know that condoms for blow jobs
are very uncommon.
BRIAN
I do know that. I've had countless
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